As I write this post about oil-based paint, I realize that the information is quickly disappearing from both common knowledge and usefulness today. If you live in California, I don’t even think you’re allowed to buy oil-based paint anymore (at least not in any significant quantities).
The landscape of house painting has been changing ever since water-based paints were first introduced by Sherwin-Williams in 1941. Kem-Tone, as it was called proved that water-based paints were a possibility. And it’s no secret that water-based, or latex paints, are easier to work with, better for the environment, and longer lasting than most oil paints. But there is still a place for them paint today. And if you live in an old house, knowing how to work with oil is almost a requirement.
What You Need To Know About Oil-Based Paint
Slow-Drying – This paint is notoriously slow drying and the reason we have the saying “It’s like waiting for paint to dry.” Most oil paints takes about 8 hrs to dry enough to recoat, as opposed to latex paint which takes around 4 hrs to recoat. This may sound like a problem at first, as it definitely slows down the whole process. But this slow drying allows the paint to flow out better and provide a smoother finish than latex paint. This slow process allows brush marks to level out remarkably well.
Good Ventilation – If you’re working with oil-based paint you need better ventilation than you do with latex paint. Make sure to open windows and put a fan in the doorway to pull in fresh air. They usually have a much higher VOC content than latex paints, which is why the extra ventilation is needed.
Yellows in Dark Areas – If you have old oil-based paint on your closet’s baseboards, chances are it’s pretty yellow. Light colored oil paints are notorious for yellowing with age and in dark areas. The more sunlight it gets, the less it yellows. If exposed to more sunlight, the yellowing will fade away though, and though today’s paints have gotten better about holding their color, it’s still a problem.
Can Be Mildew Prone – When used outside, oil-based paint has a tendency to mildew. This is especially prevalent in varieties that contain larger quantities of linseed oil.
You Need a Specific Brush – Different paints require a different brush. There are some brushes that work with both latex and oil, but natural bristle brushes work much better with oil-based paints. It’s important to pick the right paint brush. They will usually say “For Oil-based Paints” on the brush holder.
Hard Finish – One of the qualities of oil paints that manufacturers have struggled to create with latex paint is a hard durable finish on enamel paints. Nothing beats the hard, durable finish of an oil-based enamel paint. And that hard finish makes it an excellent choice for doors and windows because that hard finish eliminates the sticking that often happens with latex paints. The hard finish also unfortunately prevents the paint from being as flexible as latex, which is why old oil-based paints begin to crack and chip off. Temperature swings and expansion of the surface eventually breaks the harder paint film of an oil-based paint.
Difficult Clean Up – If you’re painting with an oil-based paint, the clean up is a bit more involved. Oil-based paint is pretty much impervious to water, so you’ll have to use paint thinner or mineral spirits to clean your brushes. Here’s some tips for using mineral spirits:
- Make sure the area is well-ventilated.
- Pour some into a bowl and vigorously mix your brush for about a minute.
- Pour the used portion into a sealable metal container.
- Repeat this process until the mineral spirits comes out clear and the brush is clean.
- Dispose of the used thinner or mineral spirits at your landfill’s hazardous waste drop off.
And there is one last thing you need to know about oil vs water based paints . . .They don’t mix! I would think it’s obvious to most people that mixing a can of oil-based paint with a can of water-based paint wouldn’t be a good idea, but I’m talking about something else here.
If you are painting oil-based paint on top of latex paint then you have to prime the latex first. Latex paint and oil-based paint expand and contract at two different rates. So, if you paint oil-based paint on top of a latex paint without priming first, the latex will flex so much underneath that the oil-paint will quickly fail.
You can get away with painting a latex paint on top of an oil-based paint without primer, but just to be safe, it’s always a good idea to prime first when you are switching from one type of paint to the other.
Hopefully, this has been a good “primer” (<—Sorry, I couldn’t resist the painter humor) for working with oil-based paint. If you have any tips I may have forgotten, please share them in the comments below.
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I love old houses, working with my hands, and teaching others the excitment of doing it yourself! Everything is teachable if you only give it the chance.
HOW LONG DOES OIL BASED TAKE TO DRY? ARE THERE ANY TEMP RESTRICTIONS?
I hope someone sees this pretty soon…..all good info if your painting a house. I have gotten myself tasked to undo and redo some wrought iron furniture for a friend of my family and it is (was) beautiful …. the previous painter just slapped it on there using a spray gun and had never done it before really………he washed it with a pressure washer sitting in his dirt driveway in the middle of winter. panted it after he “dried” it with his leaf blower. He was supposed to have brushed it with a wire brush to get the rust off and then oil based kilts it then painted…………nope he put 3 coats of paint on it the same night that he washed and dirt blow dried it. Then left it sitting for another day and night tried blow drying it again with his leaf blower…….The weather was freezing at night but with lots of due as it was november … windy as well and the paint was taking its time… ( the furniture got some bad cratches and dents in it when he piled it all on tope of itself and he bounced it and crashed it into each other to and from his house back to this sweet ladys)……..ok NOW this timefor the im gonna dry it so it will hurry i dea dude had with this damn leaf blower………He blew dirt and leaves and grass and little sticks etc……which just made him hit it once more with the paint……… He was just supposed to have left it all with me but my ride was fooey so he never brought it and never came to pick me up until he was ready to take it back………..now mind you he thought I could just wipeit all down with a towel and repaint it ONE more time……………..Yall,this lady has had this furniture forever and i’m looking at it with dirt bubbles, debris and actual living insects and leaves painted into it and i’m mortified……..i look on the underside of two things………RUST EVERYWHERE and paint cracking and OH!!! Horns flew out of my head and my hair caught afire (not really just feels that way sometimes)..xI’m like you realize I will try this on two pieces if it doesnt’ work (knowing it wasn’t going to) I will have to let it finish drying and then remove whatever i have to to get the dirt and rust and all that off and he says to me….damn just hurry up and get another coat on it…its fine………..We had a rather large falling out after we left there that day. I went back the next morning to assess the other pieces because there are prob almost twenty pieces……two round regular sized dining tables a tea cart a chaise… (he painted the rubber on the wheels too not just the foofoo thing in the middle) 10 chairs a rocker and some other stuff im sure i have forgotten. It was ALL like that………Y’all i told her that I would fix it for nothing (she has already paid the guy) because she will be good advertisement for when I do finally get done with it……..God knows it is taking me forever.
Does anyone have any suggestions re any of it? I am using the 3M paint and rust remover disks that go on a drill …WORKS GREAT and down past all the problems which has ended up being most of it really……I guess nobody did what she asked the last couple or few times it has been painted…. rust underneath many layers of butter yellow paint (tiffany is the color) ………ok so the 3M pad, a wire cup brush on drill, a round wire brush thats flat and goes out the side of the thing on a drill, My dremel with the round flat grinding thing, the rount pointed grinding thing, and , i use the sanding tubes on my dremel as well and I also have sand paper, and a small hand sander, and an assortment of brushes that you can brush by hand with .. I tried paint stripper on one small item that is really wrought iron and that was a horrible mess… It was not any faster and it was harder to get off. That little table is the rustiest of all its mostly tin and tubing… not like the heavy stuff… ……….
SO, I have a can of penetrol, oil based kilts outdoor primer, and premium outdoor oil based house paint… I plan to spray it on inside my little shop house and I have covered the walls of one of my rooms with plastic put a floor down of paper, put a really old box fan aimed out the window if I need to get more air and I have some heat lamps hanging down from the ceiling… there are two windows in the room so good cross ventilation. I plan to use a small (the smallest I believe.. spray gun that harbor freight had) I dont mind the small 4 oz cup on it because it will keep me at a speed and flow rate to where I wont even get happy and apply way to much pain at once.
If I am wrong , naive, spot on or need to be schooled…please do!……..I really want these to be over the top perfect so that dude will shut up. he keeps coming to get it every other day and it isn’t going to happen that fast…..Its a HORRIBLE mess………..trying to make me leave it shitty is what hes doing…. cause he wants a cut…. i told her i didnt want to be paid…she has already paid him …im doimg the real job and he hasnt given me squat but a hard time.
ok so I am thinking I should proceed in this order:
PREP
1) Remove painut, rust dirt etc down to the metal if necesarry;
2) Repair any welds and or bends in the structure of the piece.
3) Give an allover good sanding after getting all the dirt and forign matter off of and out of the surfaces of the peice.
4) Wipe down with tack cloths or with a rag or papertowel that is lint free soaked in some alcohol and is damp not drippy and let dry …..
PRIME
( I want to put a coat of penetrol on the pieces first and them maybe a coat of the Kiltz but I wonder if I do a good enough coat or two of penetrol on them first do i even need that primer? Looking for advice…. I dont care if it isn’t going to be ready for another mongth if that is what it takes…….Im trying to document as I go but I hate to harp on it because I feel like that is just not cool. I can tell her what it was on each piece some arts are worse than others but overall none is really “good” thats for sure!)
Said all that to say…..I will decide which way to go with all this when someone or several someones give me some clue as to best way to do this……….also I have a bottle of Japan drier as well………can i put it in my penetrol? she has this stuff outside year round………..the chairs have these weird round cups like a reeses for feet and im having to grind out the rust and that is hard………Any suggestions on how to seal the feel so that one drag across the patio doesnt; render it unprotected. What about sitting them inside a smal plastic lid filled with epoxy or penetrol. the idea of rubber feet isn’t pleasant to this lady or myself……(steps for this are skipped cause you guy havent helped me decide how to approach but if left to me im penetroling it let dry good and put another one or move to the kiltzz>> gonna let it dry a day or two or three if needed and the im going to do small thin coats of paint……
ok guys……….what do I do? Please heklp me….
Good Afternoon, By the way, you phone number on allcbdstores.com is not correct!!! I tried calling and it is not working…
I am painting louvered/slatted closet doors. I believe the paint is original, fom the 80’s, so likely oil base. I cannot imagine sanding all of these slats. I want to simply roll and smooth with a brush, as I saw on a you tube video. Do you think this will work?
i hope you forgive my correction here but you can always put oil over latex but not latex over oil without priming save for the newer waterborne technologies. they also require certain prep prior to application. also you dont have to use a certain brush with oil. it was a preference to use the china bristle for oil. but now the synthetic bristle does well. and if you were to use a china bristle brush in latex youd not notice much difference until the hairs started swelling as chinabristle is actual hog hair and hollow so with the addition of water it starts to resemble long grain rice.
My experience with latex over oil is way different! The latex over unprimed enamel, painted by so-called professionals, pealed right off. Took me 2 years to paint both of my daughters’ interiors because I had to use denatured alcohol to remove the latex off of all the woodwork including doors. And at our first home, hired painter put latex over oil without priming and next day it was all bubbled up. Nightmare!!
Hi Scott
We just washed with tsp then painted white over our dark wood paneled room with a latex primer and guess what ? The wood is looking a bit yellow and generally patchy showing through after two coats of primer. Any recommendations?
Oil based primer will block the tannins from coming thru latex won’t cut it for jobs like that.
Use Kilz “COVER STAIN” for priming raw wood, oil to latex, latex to oil, plastic, and metal. When dry, it can be sanded if a smoother finish is needed for project, use 220 grit or higher, and light sand. It is an oil based primer so it will need it’s own 2 or 5 gallon bucket with grid, roller and brush. When you are finished, you can either clean up with paint thinner or mineral spirits or, wet the roller and brush with cover stain paint, get a junk bucket half full with water, submerge the whole roller(s) w/handle and brush(s) you used with cover stain in the water, and store in a safe place for use the next day, week, month, etc. Other than that, throw the roller cover away, and clean your roller handle with mineral spirits or thinner. When taking water soaked rollers out, just shake off water and start project. Voila! ???? Aloha
We peimed ome of our imterior doors with kilz. Can we use oil based paint over this or do we meed to prime again with pil nased primer? We also purchased primed doors for the rest of the house. Is it ok to paint these without priming again? I have no odea what kind of primer they use?
Scott, really need an advice. We bought a cast iron coffee table that weighs a ton!! During transportation the paint on the sides got scratched. I assume I need to use oil paint to repair the scratches. I would hate to lose the cast iron texture under layers of oil paint. I was wondering if I can use one of those trendy techniques usually used with latex paint, but with oil paint – like paint and rub, or layer.
Thanks in advance!!
This has been a huge help for me to understand a problem we had at my previous house, and now I’m starting to see it in my current home. The last house was over 40 years old (built in the mid-70’s), and we hired a professional painter to paint several of the rooms. It cost ALOT of money, so when the paint continued to peel in large chunks we were naturally befuddled and ticked off. We had the painters come back a few times and they continued to argue that they had never seen anything like it, but I always found that unlikely. The problem was clearly to do with the fact that there were several layers of paint in a couple of the rooms. One of them, I counted 5 colors on top of the drywall/primer. Apparently, one or two of the older layers (not the original) had become very chalky, so it wasn’t holding to the wall with any real strength. This had probably been a problem for years, but was never noticed until the painters we hired came in with their over-priced “zero VOC” Sherwin Williams paint. The new layer of latex paint was sticky, so anything that touched it, like furniture or wall-hangings, would hold onto the paint stronger than the paint held the wall. So when you moved a chair away from a wall or took a picture down to dust it, you’d get a chunk of paint with it the size of a half dollar or more. The real problem was that this stickiness never went away, after 2 years. We finally touched up all the dead spots, made a house rule that NOTHING could touch the walls, and then sold the house. Now we’re seeing some of the same issues in our new house (built in the mid-80’s), but to a smaller degree. I’m going to look into using oil-based for our larger well-ventilated trim, but never using that contractor again.
I would never impugn your motives, but I think a lot of misinformation has been dished out by paint companies in cahoots with professional painters regarding oil paint. The fact is, if you want gloss or semi-gloss, oil is better for all trim, doors, shelving, and furniture – period. It looks 10X better. It is harder. It is more durable. There is no latex that can compete with top oils.
As a pro painter I agree that oil is exponentially better than latex on trim. But the fact of the matter is the EPA has put a restriction on the VOC count allowed in paints and manufacturers have had to respond by trying to emulate oil’s properties using water based products. From a painters prospective the only good thing about the new hybrids is they clean with water instead of thinner. No one in the industry is all that happy about the change in my experience.
Fire the EPA Group who is out of control. The tree hungers don’t care about your paint working and they don’t care about people they just want to save the earth and having to repaint everything 4 time more is not helping the environment either.
Hi. We recently used an oil based primer (Zinnser bin) on our 1970’s wood paneling. The fumes were awful! We live in a cold area, so we left the windows open a few days, sealed off the room (vents and doors), and ran a box fan from the window to suck as many fumes out. Then we kept a window open and ran a space heater for a few days to keep the temperature up and help the paint dry. I am still having throat and nose irritation when I have to walk into the room for any more than 10 minutes, and it has been a week! Is this normal??
Also, we plan on painting over top with some latex paint and primer in one, that we happen to have enough of. Will this seal in some of these lingering fumes??
Thanks for any feedback! I’m just wanting this room back to normal, and safe for my kids to play in again!
Bin is not oil
I have popcorn ceilings that are 37 years old and have never been painted. We added on to two large rooms. Now we have fresh textured ceilings to match the old. After testing the old ceilings, I could see that latex paint could not be rolled on except with lots of time as at least 4 coats would have to be applied (having to stripe the ceiling on coat 1, fill in the stripes on coat 2, go in the opposite direction in coat 3, and cut in on coat 4). After talking with professional painters and research, I have painted the ceilings with an alkyd based paint. This allowed me to go over the wet spots without the texture coming off. Unfortunately, a satin finish is all that I could find in my area. I want flat paint on my ceilings. I see I can paint latex over the alkyd. So I would like to let the alkyd cure before going over it with a flat latex for the second coat. How long should I wait in between?
I am painting kitchen cabinets. The doors are solid wood but the boxes are laminant over fiberboard. I sanded all the surfaces with 120 grit orbital sander. I want to use oil based paint for the hardness. Do I have to prime? If I prime does it have to be oil based? Can I glaze oil based paint?
yes oil based primer definitely.
Hey scott.. is it necessary to apply primer to paint oil based paint on old oil based paint?
Not necessarily but it’s always good insurance to be sure your paint job lasts.
Hi Scott, I’m tackling the same task in painting the kitchen cabinets.
I have sanded, undercoated in oil based twice. Both times drying for 2-3 days between and then went on with my first top coat of oil based eggshell. It’s had over 24 hours to dry (26/27) and is still tacky! I have started a second top coat yet.
It’s not overly hot/cold weather wise. So I don’t think that has affected it.
Any ideas what’s causing it? Do I continue with the second coat and hope that doesn’t dry tacky?
Each time I touch the paint, the blue colour is coming away on my fingers, so we can’t live with it and hope it disappears over time.
If we had our window frames painted with oil based paint, how soon is it safe to be in the house? 24 hours after the paint was painted, we can still smell the paint.. does that mean the fines are still in the air?
I mean fumes sorry!
Caroline, oil-based paint fumes in your situation aren’t dangerous but merely a nuisance. The fumes should greatly decrease within the first 48 hrs and be completely gone within a couple weeks.
Curious about your thoughts on the best applicator to use to get the smoothest finish with oil based paint
Purdy natural bristle brushes are my fav.
Tack rag after 220 or 320. Short nap roller or sponge roller to apply the paint evenly (roll in two directions) – this help reduce sags, then tip the finish with a good $$ 4″ natural bristle brush. Don’t forget the Penetrol. Leave it alone for 48 hours.
Hi Scott – Painting some big flat wood columns, I made a mistake and rolled on Zinsser oil primer with a 1/2″ nap roller. In a rush to get them covered before end of the day. The nap made some thick stipple marks, I planned to sand afterwards so wasn’t too concerned and just carried on to get a coat on and start the tedious dry time. I noticed it wasn’t covering the bondo, and raw wood that well, and didn’t want bleeding on finish coat. So I did a second coat after about an hour. 24 hours later it’s still not ready to sand.. I plan to topcoat with latex, but need to sand first. Anyone else run into trouble with this stuff not drying enough to sand? I’ve been here before and I feel like it took 3 days… Any advice is appreciated. I’m only a carpenter !!!
I haven’t had a problem with fruit times unless you’ve got cool wet weather. Put some fans on it and give it time. It will dry eventually.
If you have trouble sanding the primer, but you really want it to be smooth, it may actually be less work to skim coat it with drywall mud (I like USG all-purpose), then sand it smooth until you’re happy with the surface, and just paint over that. You will probably need at least two coats depending on what paint you use, because the mud does soak up the first coat.
Just went through this experience with z-prime. Had the paint store shake well six hours before use. Sprayed on door and took a week to dry. Second time used a power drill with a mixing tool and found globs at the bottom. Took almost 20 minutes mixing before it was all smooth. Sprayed again this time had to thin with mineral spirits. dried to touch in hours and sanded after 18 hours. This stuff has to be mixed really well before use.
“You can get away with painting a latex paint on top of an oil-based paint without primer,” I have found this first part to not be true, LATEX WILL PEEL OFF, with out your next part which should be a must not a choice, ”but just to be safe, it’s always a good idea to prime first when you are switching from one type of paint to the other.”
I am having to remove the latex from all the wood work so that can prep the oil based painted trim in a 3000 sq ft home.
This is true if the oil paint was glossy. you will still need to sand it before painting with latex, or it will peel off. but this is true of any glossy surface